harp | You There! Potter or Death?

dancingcarrot21 posted a meme about Fandoms as Lovers, and the answer to the question about the cruel lover was, for her The Harry Potter Fandom!!!. She ranted beautifully, and when I went to comment, it was so darned lengthy that I made it into a post instead. I suggest... no, I ask you very kindly to skip this entry if you aren't familiar with the moldy, scum-and ejaculate-covered locker room shower drain of the Harry Potter fandom. It's wanky, rabid, and the truth is, unless you were in the forums during the release of OotP through Deathly Hallows, it's really not going to make any sense to you. Really, it doesn't make sense, but when you're in it, for those few hours, it makes a world of sense. To put it into internet terms, "it was srs bznss at the time!"

Instead, please enjoy the latest Harpsiccord Entry about the morgue. Or Fill out the RPer Friending Meme if you haven't! You don't have to be looking for a game to fill it out.

Carrot (and everyone else who did a tour on LJ, FictionAlly, and Journalfen), lets get ranty. P.S- Carrot if you want me to delete your quote or use a different one, tell me.

The one who seduced you and fucked you over and broke your heart in a million pieces and laughed about it.
[...] I’ll always cherish my memories there, the banner exchanges, and the people who made it possible to have fun. The ones on my f-list, you know who you are.

However, after I ventured into other territory in the HP fandom, dear lord did I see the difference. FF.net, Fiction Alley, and Livejournal have to be the most vile cesspools of crazy you’ll ever see in the HP fandom. It’s pretty much given that at least one fight will break out a day over some meaningless topic.

[...]

This fandom is nuts. Oh, and not to mention the ever going war between obsessive OBHWF shippers and H/Hr shippers. Or the debate of who’s more of a jackass while comparing Snape, James, Lily, and the other Marauders. Despite the books being over for FOUR YEARS.

People keep complaining about how it’s over, but I’m giddy with excitement. I can’t wait for this train wreck of a fandom to die down. It’s so full of its own self entitlement.
-Carrot

As Potter is the only fandom I know from your list, it's the only one I can comment on, and I say this.

I too have my fun experiences- Femslash exchange, Dron, Potter Sims, drawings for people, chat logs with my friend Leslie, and of course f-listers like you and Telem and Loki. Probably other stuff I can't remember, too. I'll never forget those and I loved every second of them.

But on the whole? The fandom is full of disgusting, vindictive, boastful, pigheaded, judgmental, petty, cruel, bigoted shallow people. I was pissed about the Katie-hate when it first came up, but I had no idea how bad it was until you told me more about it, Carrot. Death threats to the actress? They may as well have been pre-written, because no matter who they got, in the end, she was kissing DanRad, and that is a sin. And sure, actresses get death threats all the time, but the racist comments were really putting me over the edge- I didn’t know they were getting racist with it.

Incidentally, read a thing online yesterday where someone said that white women feel "threatened" by Asian women, but I’ll get to the fandom pettiness in a bit.

Now that Blaise thing you mentioned?. Wow. I cannot. I can. Not.
And look at that! A lot of the above comments are deleted, and *shock* the ones that defend the OP are anon. Moo-cowards. At least a lot of the comments called out the poster. That’s a good sign.
I’m also slightly amused at the conversation between the anon and LVT. The two of us can’t seem to get along ever, but this anon’s attempt at shaming her speaks volumes of HP Stupidity. The word “mudblood” is oh-so-offensive, but it’s fine to say “muggle”. Think about that for a bit.

But I’m not surprised by this display of shallowness. Just take the case of the Death Eaters. Draco, Snape, Lord Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy, and Tom Riddle all have legions of fangirls and fanfiction. The other bad guys are largely ignored, but there’s one that gets special treatment by being left out of fanfic, written over, replaced with Lily, and bashed repeatedly, and that’s Peter Pettigrew. The only difference between him and the others mentioned is that he’s unattractive. I guarantee you that if he was a bird-boned pretty boy and carried on with his crying and wailing, there would be a legion of Peter Apologists writing fanfics and claiming “if he didn’t do it, then there’d be no story”.

The fandom is insanely hypocritical. Half of them claim to identify with Hermione, say that they, too were outcaaaast because they (le gasp) read books and studied, then they turn around and gang up on one-another or rally around bullies like emerson (not worth the capitalization) . Funny how for a fandom full of nerds and outcasts there’s a ship that’s “okay” to pick on.

Oh, and selfishness. I’ve defended H/Hr and H/L in forums before, or just plain said that I don’t like R/Hr in forums. The response has, 100% of the time, been people assuming I ship H/Hr. They can’t get it through their heads that someone could possibly defend something they don’t ship. Of course not! They see someone being picked on, and they’re quick to join in so that they don’t get it next. Know what's good fun? Watching the wibbling when the one joining in makes a remark that the original bully doesn’t like. Lots of ass-covering and back-tracking.

Again, I can hardly say I’m surprised by this- it's a matter of self-preservation. In the PFW (Potter Fandom Wars), Livejournal, Journalfen, and FictionAlley Park were the Western Front, and people got really creepy and nasty, with namecalling, troop rallying, and following one-another to personal journals (Hi, Daksian!). LadyJayne was telling us in one community how, during one argument, someone commented asking her about her daughter’s hair. This was in reference to a personal journal entry she made about how her daughter had really long hair and they were trying to manage the tangles.

Point of Order: The OBHWFers I'm talking about here are a very specific group. This is the hoard that does not merely ship OBHWF, but gets angry when anyone via outright speech or different shipping dares to imply that parts of Rowling's golden universe would look better in hunter green rather than forest green.

I’m convinced that the phrase “you’re just jealous” was invented for this fandom. Take a look at every act of fandom-righteous spite-sniping and you'll see that every one was either born of jealousy or has jealousy's fingerprints on it- the anti-Cho Chang, the sneering at the HHR dance scene, the Fleur bashing, the Lavender straw man, Harry’s kiss with Ginny in the common room where he takes a moment to look up from his kiss with Ginny to see Dean and have a little inward gloat about it. However the “you’re jealous” was reserved for anyone with a differing opinion from canon, meaning people who didn’t like how a ship turned out and explained why they felt that way, people who didn’t like a certain character because of how s/he acted or just plain didn’t like a character’s attitudes and beliefs.

The fandom is insecure to the point of being rabid. You’d think that with a series so beloved that pop culture references it all over the place, we’d be pretty secure as insiders, but just try making a point that doesn’t fit in with the collective. Just try saying “this part here was stupid”. The wrath of the masses will descend.

“You’re just butthurt because JK killed your character/ship!”

Oh, and don't forget Fandom Wank on JournalFen. Tell me that place isn't run by the Focus on the Family... the biggest insult these people can come up with boils down to implying that the insultee does not have a boyfriend/lover/spouse/date. You can really profile the Big Name Warriors in the OBHWF camp- people in their late twenties and up (I will never, never, never get over the fact that the Laurel Camer, the person who would go around calling Harmoney fans "little bitches" is in her early sixties), attached to someone, kids, extended family, believes strongly that being married and bearing children is a given in anyone's life, utterly unable to understand the concept of preferring not to date. No wonder H/Hr is an insult- it leaves two lose ends. Where's Ron's prize? And Ginny needs to have a man! First of all she waited for him, but more importantly, that's the only reason she was written in- Harry's trophy. I'm not just being biased either. This sexist tripe is celebrated in that camp-

The first barrier, which Harry (and Harry alone) can breach with his snakelike power of Parseltongue, represents the hymen that guards the entrance to the passage leading to the womb.

[...]

And a man does "slide into" that pipe – first Lockhart, then Harry, then Ron. The imagery is appropriately dark, damp, and slimy: "It was like rushing down an endless, slimy, dark slide."

[...]

[...] the resulting avalanche ensures that Harry must go on alone – fittingly so, as the return to the womb is traditionally a lone adventure, and also fittingly because the girl who has been used to lure them there – Ginny – is an inappropriate sexual object for both Ron and Lockhart. It is Harry who is the object of Ginny’s emerging adolescent desire, and only Harry can rescue her from her ravisher. [WAT.]

Civilized society, however, has its demands, and Harry is only twelve years old. He does not keep the sword, but gives it to Dumbledore, who returns it to its glass case. Nor does he keep the maiden; instead he returns her to the safety of her family, represented by her brother Ron and then by her mother and father in Dumbledore's office.
-Angua9's essay "The Chamber of Smut: Sexual Imagery in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" here.

I can't even... you have got to be kidding me with this sexist garbage. But what really kills me is how the people commenting on her journal tore at Harmony fans for a theory about symbolism in the flight on Buckbeak's back. They'd never let another shipper get away with this. When rival (popular) shippers comment in private forums about why they like their pairing, Fandom Wank is all over it, but if someone from their camp writes a goddamned essay about how wands in Chamber of Secrets are male reproductives and how Harry is sliding down slimy, dark, dirty bathroom pipes that are supposed to represent vaginas...

There was a brief, glorious moment when the fandom set aside their differences to mock the Twilight series, and that was nice. Unfortunately, it was just a front. The awful truth is that we claim to be the superior, intellectual fandom, but the Twilight fandom has something we’ll never have- they stick together. They don’t eat their own. If fandoms were houses, the Twihards are living in a poorly constructed shack with paper thin walls and a roof made of swiss cheese, and they have the winds and rains of criticism of all kinds constantly bearing down on them, but inside, they’re a happy family that Ma and Pa Potter say “will never know the finer things in life, the poor dumb bastards” but that doesn’t really need insulation because they cuddle each other to stay warm.

Meanwhile, over in the Potter Mansion where the climate is always relatively mild, the parents are throwing bottles of imported wine at one-another and screaming obscenities and one of the kids presses his nose to the glass to look across the street at the shack and think how nice it must be to live in a happy home. That’s why we confined ourselves to our rooms for the most part, and only let our friends in. Carrot, you said it alright- this fandom’s an effing madhouse.

Current Mood: cranky

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

(deleted comment)

I'm glad I found you and Heron and Loki. God, I wish I could stay away from the communities; all they do is make me angry. I can imagine how it must be for you, though. Heron once made a post about the way they were acting in a post in HonestlyRonald. Is that what you meant about getting overly angry, or did you mean something else. Tell me- you are quite relevant to my interests always.

But thanks to you and her and Loki, now whenever I see a RHr shipper acting like a dick, I no longer think "you people...". Now I think "You dick, you're giving my friends a bad name."

(deleted comment)

What was Fleur's crime?! She was pretty? She was a bit snotty about some things when she visited Hogwarts? Ginny didn't like her? I half want to see this Fleur Bashing to see what it's about, but I'd be tempted to jump into a fight. I suppose I'll just check V.E.N.O.M.

It's always to the insults first. No negative comment even needs to be made, since there's some kind of code. "I like X" translates into "I hate Y and hope Y dies in a fire". Yep, this is a fandom of extremes. Dislike for H/G means you're a Harmony loving Weasley hater- did you know that? Liking Snape makes a person a Voldemort-fangirling Slyterin Stan. The very concept of multi-shipping blows their minds because there simply is not room for complex thoughts independent of one-another. That's why it's easier to become a Rowling sheep.

What was Fleur's crime?! She was pretty? She was a bit snotty about some things when she visited Hogwarts? Ginny didn't like her?

Bingo. Or rather, Ginny was seen to be a brat in her actions towards Fleur ... so what else can a pro-canon fan do, but try and show that Ginny was justified, that her mean sense of humour, her cowardly mocking behind Fleur's back, none of that counts, because Fleur was so nasty and DESERVED IT?

(deleted comment)

I will forever compare fandom characters to food. In the case of multi-shipping and Ron (I ship him with men, women, and - this is true - the giant squid) I'd say that Ron was angel hair pasta. Sometimes you want it with tomato sauce, sometimes with cheese sauce, sometimes plain with a few prawns.

But these are the people who were(are) convinced that shipping was not for enjoyment but a contest to guess who JK would make endgame. And, like you said, extremes.

I especially hate people who bash Fleur.

Yes, I know what you mean.

I'm mindful of a devout H/G disciple who was writing a sixth-year story which dealt with the time that Fleur was staying at the Burrow. The fan couldn't break the canon depiction of Ginny - who was spitefully mocking Fleur behind her back, ridiculing her, exhibiting juvenile mean humour - so since she couldn't raise GInny up she instead had to resort to bringing Fleur down. Ginny was justified in being a petty spiteful little brat because ... well, see how horrid Fleur was? In my fanfic! So there!

I hate it when Harry/Ginny shippers get obnoxious about their ship. They have this sense of undeserved entitlement just because their pairing's canon.

'Entitlement' is a wonderful word. Really, 'because it's canon' means almost nothing, as Rowling turned out to be such a bad author. And certainly the confusion of all of those post-publication interviews proved that she had no greater understanding of her work than any good fan. But when you try and explain to them how "it's canon" means nothing they'll tune you out (of course).

(deleted comment)

I'm about to disagree with you, but I promise the words BECAUSE IT'S CANON or NO U JEALOUS will not pass my lips. :-)

I don't think Rowling is a bad author, per se; I think she's an excellent writer, but had some trouble with proper execution of plot points for the last two books.

Sorry to come out strong, but Rowling's an abysmal author. If you want to stick to the first 5 books then, fine, she's an adequate-to-good writer; but the sixth book was bad and the last an abomination. It doesn't matter who you ship, what your personal preferences are ... the last book is just inconsistent, illogical, saturated with errors, no matter how you look at it.

(Unless one adopts the pro-Jo canon shipper's tactic ... not to look at it.)

While some fans are gracious and let Rowling off the hook because they fondly remember the first 4-5 books, I think they're going way too easy on her. Firstly because the errors of the last one, the way she tried to finish her series, were just too huge, too amateurish. Secondly because a 'good' author should be able to finish what she's started; and Rowling couldn't. My ire at this second is amplified by how she would nod and wink at the fans and imply or state outright that we would be given all the answers we sought, that everything was according to her plan. Where, in the end, we found that there was no plan at all, and that Rowling wasn't competent enough to finish what she started.

There's an interview somewhere where she explains why she put Harry and Ginny together, and it makes sense when she explains it but when she wrote it, it just came out jumbled and too sudden and too strange.

The well-known "Interview o' Doom", I think, the weekend that HBP came out. Maybe Rowling's most egregious ego-stroking love affair with her fans.

I don't necessarily hate Ginny either, now that I think of it.

Keep thinking. Think harder. :-)

Ginny isn't the most evil girl in the galaxy ... she was just a not-very-nice teenage girl. It surprised me how Rowling made her so unlikeable; it really does seem to have been a case of 'looks being everything'. That's all there is to H/G anyway. Or otherwise Ginny was much nicer in her head but she forgot to put all the good bits down on paper; like you said at the top.

It's so pathetic that it's hilarious.

Exactly!! It was really god fun sometimes to see the pro-canon crowd fume and huff and get upset because they knew they were wrong but weren't mature enough to admit it. So instead all of the childishness that they spewed to muddy the waters was sort of fun to laugh at, once one was able to sit back and relax after the win and watch the insults and "BECAUSE I JUST LIKE IT" and so forth. Oh, and the "BECAUSE IT'S MY OPINION AND EVERYONE'S OPINION IS SACROSANCT" defence, that was one of the very best ones that tickled me pink, God bless 'em.

(deleted comment)

Do you think you could give me some examples here?

Well, I should; given as how I'm asserting that there's about a gazillion problems with the last book the onus would be on me to list them!

A few quickies:

If Arthur and Bill could be their own Secret Keepers then so too could have James or Lily; thus the whole foundation of the series is blown out of the water.

If Grindlewald's theft of the Elder Wand from Gregorovitch transferred mastery to the thief then so too should Voldemort's stealing the wand from Dumbledore's tomb (while the ostensible then owner, Harry, was watching via Voldie-vision) have made the dark lord the boss of the wand;

If Harry knew that his died-well-I-didn't-but-I-meant-to sacrifice had worked, and the castle defenders were protected against the dark lord, why was he casting protego shields as fast as he could all the way up to the big melodramatic farce of a showdown? Ernie, Hannah and Molly, I think, are listed;

If Harry's sacrificial protection was based on Lily's why did it work completely differently?

If the castle defenders were protected why was Voldemort tossing around McGonagall, Kinsgley and Shacklebolt like tenpins? Throwing them with great force against the castle walls, I think.

Ron's 'feeling' that the Trio couldn't say the Taboo word was one of the most amateurish and ridiculous out-of-the-air things in the whole book. Never explained. It was just a feeling. Uh huh. You see, Rowling couldn't think of any other way to shoehorn in a reason for Harry not to say the word until his big gaff, that was the best she could do. Really. I'd be too embarrassed to write something like that.

If the Elder Wand refused to act against its master in the final farce of a showdown ... why did it do exactly that in the forest an hour or so earlier?

Those are just a handful. There are, seriously, heaps more. One day I'm going to write them all out; I've got to do it before I leave the fandom (or it evaporates to nothingness around me).

Ginny's rather brash and she tends to be obnoxious or rude at times, but you have to remember that she's around fifteen or sixteen at the time. Not all of us were perfect at that age ...

Your typical teenager has good and bad points. But almost all of Ginny's attirbutes, delivered in books 6 & 7, were on the bad side. She was just a loud, brash, obnoxious, nasty little girl. There's more 'heaps' of canon evidence supporting this. She had some good points, sure, but they were vastly outweighed by the bad.

Many other characters were likewise teenagers, around the same age as Ginny, but they didn't end up nearly as nasty.

God, it just makes you want to get out the popcorn and hit refresh every five seconds. It's like a really bad comedy you can't look away from. You laugh and then cry a little on the inside because oh my God these people are ruining Harry Potter every day with this nonsense

Aside from the other reasons why I've enjoyed the debates with those clowns - the debate substance itself, watching them squirm, satisfaction from the victories, the sheer entertainment value of their avoidance of the facts, etc - I honestly have enjoyed very much the 'psychological' side of it. I never did psychology at university but I've had great fun the last few years analysing some of the worst of the HP canon zombies. While discussing their actions other fans have pointed out various things that I never knew about psychology. And I've even had a bit of success in 'predicting' some of their moves (like Laurel's, she was pretty easy sometimes).

It's a long long LONG distance from HP pro-Jo rabid zealot to religious fundamentalist but often times the former were running on exactly the same forces as the latter (IT'S CANON! IT'S WRITTEN BY JO! JO SAYS SO!). I found it quite fascinating!

I think I love you.

I will always be there for the underdog ship. I deeply regret that before the Harmony Podcast ended, I didn't get a chance to submit a letter to be read about being a Harmony Shipper Supporter.

Okay, that essay on how the Chamber of Secrets represents Ginny Weasley's vagina?

WHAT THE EVER LOVING FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE OP?

This book is written for KIDS god damn it. I know when I was reading CoS at nine years old I wasn't thinking about how chambers represented vaginas and wands and swords represented penises. Just because some perverted adult with too much time on their hands sees "HURR DURR A SWORD, THAT MEANS IT'S A DONG!" doesn't mean kids are seeing that or that a author intended for someone to read it that way.

AND TOM RIDDLE GOT INTO THAT CHAMBER FIRST. Are they implying he raped her? Seriously?! Like the chamber just can't you know, REPRESENT A CHAMBER? Snakes LIKE COOL PLACES. It makes sense it a giant snake would dwell in something like a slimy chamber. And as for the slime? It's damp because of water and mold not a vagina. JFC, people.

All that book represented was the typical knight in shining armor saves the damsel in distress from the fiery dragon that you see in fairy tales. That's it! Finito! Done!

Incidentally, read a thing online yesterday where someone said that white women feel "threatened" by Asian women, but I’ll get to the fandom pettiness in a bit.

Is this in the HP fandom bitching about Cho again? I'm not surprised, but it does piss me the hell off. My mother, my step mother, myself, and other asians and part asians are not "threatening" white women by existing. That statement is just dripping with insecurity and pettiness.

I almost feel sorry for people who are this stupid.

And nah, Harp. I don't mind you quoting me. I said what I meant about that fandom.

Edited Date: Friday, May 27th, 2011 01:09 am (UTC)

The two Angua9 essays I ever read had me alternately disgusted and amused. She has another one about why Harry and Hermione aren't suited, which is fine except for the fact that she's grasping at straws and that if what she said in the essay is true, then Ron isn't suited for her at all. I cannot read her long, rambly rants because her hypocrisy is off the charts. It'd be one thing if she wrote about her ship and why they're suited, but she can't do that- from what I've seen, it's not even that she likes R/HR so much as she just hates H/Hr. Not the same thing. Then I get to wanting to say that to her, but oh, God, I know it's pointless.

Fandom seems like it should follow two rules-
Rule #1- Whoever draws first blood (attacks another person for what they like and ship) is a dick.
Rule #2- Hold a contest to see who can be a not-dick for the longest amount of time.

Maybe I'm just bias, but I seriously believe that they drew first blood, which is why I defend the Harmony fans. The group at Fandomwank? They're nothing more than biased bullies, and they know it. Seriously, I just want to ask them face to face "What is it to you that someone likes that? Why does it bother you?"

No, the thing about white women feeling threatened was... it was about how white men prefer Asian women for some sexist, Pinkerton reasons (youth, submission). Same bullshit about how supposedly white women are stealing black men or sometpit. It's just like "curvy women vs. skinny bitches" and it means just one thing- pitting females against one-another. >C

I too feel sorry for those stupid, insecure people, and irrationally pissed at them. Pissed because I can't pinpoint the source that implanted those ideas, but if I ever find out the specific source, my anger will go there.

Additional point of order: while I was looking for that essay referenced, I checked Anguya's Fandom Wank Wiki page. No essays of her's are listed, just some part about how she helped to do something to bring down a non-OBHWF shipper in some mess. I suspect they know her essays are ridiculous but don't understand subtle concepts like "criticism does not mean a rejection of all the person stands for".

I have to ask, who is Laurel Camer? I know she's on F.W., but what's her username? I've never recognized that name on the F.W. posts.

F.W. can sometimes be unbiased when it comes to other fandoms, but when it comes to HP I tend to avoid the posts. Someone made a good post on the wank OBHWF shippers had over the scene where Harry dances with Hermione in the movie, but a lot of the comments below tried to make it seem like, "LOL H/Hr SHIPPERS!"

Though some stayed on topic. So, it depends.

I still will never find enough brain bleach to wipe that Chamber of Secrets essay from my memory. URRRRGHHHH.

*Supar late commentttttt!* Laurel Camer doesn't have a different username aside from just "Laurel_Camer". I found out she was over 60 when someone casually mentioned it to me during a big both-sides battle.

(deleted comment)

Isn't it just fab? I love this icon, but back in the day when I used to shuffle icons without a thought, this icon sparked the most massive, ugly fandom war I've ever been in. And it was purely unintentional.

(deleted comment)

There's an ~~app~~ for that, too.
Damn it, where were you when I was dying for someone to RP that with in 2006-2009?

O_o
:o
D:

Fandoms are skeery!
Just saying. I can't ship, I've got something like a reverence for what the author is planning. (Although, tttt? While book Aragorn belonged with Arwen, Movie Aragorn belonged with Eowyn. And legolas and faramir set up a nice little collective in Ithilien...)

This is why you're love. I can't even begin to express it, so I'll have Ron in my icon do it.
I bet you and Brad (commenter below) would get along well. You're both chatty, bright fellows.
~~What's TTTT?~~ Edit: Wait, I just got it- "to tell the truth".

Edited Date: Friday, May 27th, 2011 12:31 pm (UTC)

To Tell The Truth

(cough) Derp.

Cry "Havok!" and let slip the dogs of war!!

I can’t wait for this train wreck of a fandom to die down.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Whatever will I do once the HP fandom is gone?

Death threats to the actress? They may as well have been pre-written, because no matter who they got, in the end, she was kissing DanRad, and that is a sin.

I can't help but think that the ire of some fans towards the Cho actress was probably motivated by their (never publicly acknowledged) knowing that their canon-approved anointed girlfriend for Harry, Ginny, is very plain looking (possibly even ugly; I wobble on that one, depending on whether she's pictured with the other HP girls or on her own). It's the extra-special reason why the Ginny/canon disciples are angry about H/Hr in the movies. Really. With many of the die-hard, crazy, *nasty* canon faithful you'll often read their affirmations that "Jo's" writing was just superb, and, alongside, attached as a rider, a proclamation that Bonnie Wright is 'beautiful, so there'. To me the addendum has always smacked of desperation; they know they're pushing a dead horse in trying to hold that the canon was good writing, etc, and so they throw in the Ginny/Bonnie thing for the hell of it. When it just doubles the chances of their entire post being ridiculed.

Anyway, I do think that's part of the Cho hatred (which I didn't know about at the time). The same way that the canon faithful poo-poo Emma Watson and desperately try and push poor Bonnie. Making their whole position just that much sadder. It's the reverse of your 'pretty boy' theory. With Pettigrew, he's not a pretty boy, so he's dumped. But the canon apologists can't dump Ginny ... so instead they try and pretty Bonnie up. While hating the actresses who so easily outshine her (which wasn't allowed in the books).

... like emerson (not worth the capitalization).

Ha ha ha!!! :-)

I’m convinced that the phrase “you’re just jealous” was invented for this fandom. Take a look at every act of fandom-righteous spite-sniping and you'll see that every one was either born of jealousy or has jealousy's fingerprints on it- the anti-Cho Chang, the sneering at the HHR dance scene ...

The dance scene particularly. I was amazed and entranced by the number of canon faithful who were trying to knock that scene even months before the movie came out.

It's not just jealousy though. Much of their ranting is backed by an understanding - at some level - that their preferred position is *threatened* by the outsider, the non-canon event, the beautiful leading actress, etc. And they're *insecure* ... they know that their canon position looks bad in comparison. And so they do everything they can to ignore it or denigrate it. It's fascinating to watch.

Dear Laurel called fans "little bitches"? Well, I'm not surprised; she was pretty nasty when she was under pressure and looking foolish. Which was most of the time. :-) I miss her and her entertaining posts though.

That Angua9 essay is just ... ugh. A new high (or low) in extrapolating where no man has gone before in trying to see what you want to see. That's just ... farcical.

Unlike Carrot I *enjoyed* the fights on Fiction Alley (debates are always enjoyable when you're on the winning side). Sadly I only discovered those forums after DH came out. During the OotP - DH interregnum I knew only of Livejournal, where the discussions were much more restrained and low-volume. At least in the blogs that I frequented.

Unlike Carrot I *enjoyed* the fights on Fiction Alley (debates are always enjoyable when you're on the winning side).

It didn't matter whether you were on the winning side or not, there were still idiots who would bitch at you and force their head canon as actual canon despite everything proving otherwise. At least in my experience on that website.

I would pull quotes out for my arguments, including page numbers and what version I was using of the book. And still people would come at me and bitch about how wrong I was and how I needed to see things their way.

I guess if you like dealing with those people then okay. But personally I found them an annoyance after a while.

I would pull quotes out for my arguments, including page numbers and what version I was using of the book. And still people would come at me and bitch about how wrong I was and how I needed to see things their way.

Yes, that was in my experience with Fiction Alley too.

But it's still *satisfying* to marshal an argument that's got references and quotes, that's iron-clad. And, given as how most of the rabid pro-Jo crowd were never mature enough to concede defeat, to say "yes, you're right" ... well, the stupidity, the diversions, the strawmen, the ad hominem attacks ("you're just jealous!" :-)), their inability to perceive the bias of their own world view, their helplessness in moving outside it ... well, they all served as alternative signs of 'victory'.

I guess if you like dealing with those people then okay.

They weren't all stupid. There was enjoyment in the actual debates themselves.

But, at the end, when they'd switch into their not-grown-up-enough-to-concede games ... well, I'd just sit back, laugh and enjoy the show. From my position of victory. :-)

And some of the stupidity was just pure *entertainment*, from a humorous point of view. Like many of the posts of Laurel (to whom Harpsi has referred here). One day I should do a 'greatest hits' - 'greatest LAUGHS' - compilation of her posts, maybe. :-)

As much as the HP fandom used to piss me off, I probably wouldn't change it because me being annoyed by people in HP fandom caused me to make some of my best fandom-friends, so...I guess it's not a complete loss?! And for a long time the only people I've discussed HP with have been my flist, and it. is. wonderful. It's to the point that I can barely remember the crazy until someone brings it up and then I'm like, "oh yeah." But overall, really, when I'm in one fandom or other and I see people going on about how craaaaazzzyyy it is, I don't even bat an eye because I just think to myself, "You have no fucking clue."

This is true, especially of the community which you Mod'ed. I'm ever so grateful for the times we had there. ~~Hogan's~~ Heron's Heroes. Especially the episode when that girl decided she didn't want to go to Columbia because Floria went there and Floria was meeeean.

Oh I'll never forget my old days in the HP fandom....which is why I am so leery of being active in any major fandom ever again.

*Points* Same. I call it Fandom PTSD and it's stopped me from getting into any other fandom aside from ones I make up myself with RP partners.

I do RP major fandoms with my few RP partners because I trust them, and have known them long enough that we both know what the other is going to do/want to do with them and there's no fights.

Oh, HP fandom! I had forgotten all the bullshit - I guess I blocked it out? OBHWF - I'd forgotten about that ridiculous acronym! Lol, I love the first comment about how people are arguing about Snape, Lily and the Marauders four years later because it is so true. And one of best people on my flist still writes about Lily and we totally disagree but she's cool about it.

I'm 90% sure that most of the SPN fandom is the old HP fandom and that's why it's so wanky. At least all the Marauder fans and the Slytherin fans. Sometimes I wonder what happened to Gun - I know most people didn't like her but we somehow came to some agreement despite pretty much having opposing views on everything. Like someone else said, though, despite all the crazy that went on I think some of my favorite people on my flist are from my HP days. The fandom had a way of making you very loyal.

*Is surprised and intrigued twice* So... so Gun was not well liked? I kinda thought I was the only one for some reason...
Also, you actually talked her into an understanding?! That... that troll?! Information on both subjects, please!

Hahaha, oh, Gun.

Gun was well-liked by that whole ridiculous crowd over at journalfen. She was sort of their ring-leader at one time, I think because she was funny and pretty articulate. And, you know, kinda mean. The thing you really had to do was beat her. Really, I think she just liked the way I argued and the way that I was willing to listen to what she had to say and admit when she had a good point. Because I think her perception of everyone on our side was pretty much the same perception we had of them - that we weren't willing to listen despite the fact that we had it all wrong. And if you really got down to a discussion with her, you'd find you had points in common.

So it sorta worked out. I'd stand up for her and because she was popular, I could say whatever I wanted and not end up on journalfen. And I think it was interesting for both of us to try and sustain this connection with someone whose viewpoints were so different.

And then one day she just dropped off the map. Haven't heard from her since. Hope she's ok. Because beyond HP and everything, she was actually a good person, she just put up a really good front and, like me, sometimes took it too far with the mocking.

*Eyebrow raise* O Rly? The one time I ever had it out with her, she was making jokes and I started making jokes back- not mean ones, but neutral ones. Ones to show that I really didn't want to fight. In the end, she said something about writing some ridiculous pairing crackfic and I replied with "Be sure to put it on HP_rarepairs" with a link, and then she resorted to petty namecalling and that was the end. That left a sour taste in my mouth about the whole thing, as you can imagine, and though I'm inclined to believe you, it's hard to convince myself that she's "actually a good person". Especially since any idiot could clearly see that at the time, my ship loyalty and preference was to Harry/Ron, so I really shouldn't have been a "threat".

But I guess that's what you meant about taking it too far with the mocking.

So your take plus my personal experience, plus some half-remembered explanation about how she kept changing her name because of bitchfits thrown leads me to form a picture of chronic Internet Tough Guy and certified Approval Junkie. I suppose I can't hold any active ill will. Still, that side drew first blood, and her associating with them makes it hard for me to think of her as little more than a bully. And I'm sad about that, because she was clever. Both camps had their counterparts, and her's was Floria (remember her? Brilliant, snarky Columbia student). So I bet she would be fun to know.

And while we're sharing, I made friends with someone from the other side, too. Remember Dak? Yeah...

I remember being amused at people's surprise over Blaise turning out to be black, because I didn't even know who he was before then. He was scenery before HBP, filling out the Slytherin table so we wouldn't think it was just Draco and those two guys.

(I'm honestly happy that my mental images of characters never seem to have an appearance, unless one has been given through description. In my head they're invisible unless otherwise stated, with a few exceptions.)

I know other fandoms supposedely have it "just as bad", like Naruto for instance. But I'm quite sure that Harry Potter has them all beat. For crying out loud, on one side we've had people claiming genetics make you a "stupid R/Hr-shipper" and on the other side we had people claiming that "only people dumb enough not to be atheist" would ship H/Hr. And that's just a handful examples, I could compile a freakin' book on this.

Some times I wonder if perhaps it would be worth it to try and figure out what made Harry Potter so "special" in that sense. I'm willing to bet that it had a lot to do with the whole "mystery to figure out" sense that Rowling kept giving the series as a whole, as well as to the romantic aspect. Being "right" became a lot more loaded that way, being less about sharing preferences with the original writer and more about "figuring it out". Making canon shippers "special and in synch with the writer" and fanon shippers "too dumb to get it".

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Profile

Harpsiccord, As Seen on Livejournal

August 2016

S	M	T	W	T	F	S
	1	2	3	4	5	6
7	8	9	10	11	12	13
14	15	16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25	26	27
28	29	30	31

Page Summary

Style Credit

Base style: Abstractia by chiming
Theme: Abyss by chiming

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags

Page generated Tuesday, March 3rd, 2026 12:51 pm

Arm in arm we are the harmless sociopaths

You There! Potter or Death?

Links

Page Summary

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags