harp: (Amy Winehouse)
This Party Post is for complaining, griping, and worrying about the mass extinction of monsters. Yes, if challenged, I have three "silver linings" to this phenomenon. Yes, I am fully ready to hear it if "No, Harp, see, Isaac Marion wrote a comedy/actually does it right/wrote something good so give it a chance/be lol-trollin" and even abandon my initial misgivings or give him a chance to see if I like him/it's funny on purpose/he be lol-trollin" or another unforseen... thing.

Later. Let's get our rage on now. The subject is the wrecking of monsters.

We got Smeyer putting a big fluffy bow on vampires and werewolves. No, I don't care if vampires have long since been romanticized; those people didn't literally remove every single thing that's remotely associated with "vampire" and do it on a Hiroshima-sized scale. I mean seriously, it's gotten to the point where even when reasonable people discuss vampires, someone has to evoke the protection shield "but not those vampires".

Then we've got stuff like Beastly, Red Riding Hood, The Vampire Diaries, and more books featuring once delightfully fearful humanoid monsters stripped of their weaknesses and poured into boy band bodies. It's getting very difficult to notice now that they're doing it to Slender Man (admittedly, I don't think it's meant to be good, and also, I personally don't care about Slender Man).

But honestly? They've crossed a line this time. Zombies? No. That's pushing it. That's dirty pool. The fact that Smeyer is "endorsing it", well! So many jokes, don't know which one to pick.

Ok, here's the part where I start breathing fire.

1. Why the flip is it always monster male/hoo-min female? I know the obvious answers, and they make-a me sick. I'm not rolling my eyes. What's happening is that my mouth is in a very tight rage-frown and all the vomit has backed up and my eyeballs are floating around in it.

My kingdom for a Vampire!Female/Hoo-min male story, please. The last female supernatural/male mortal story I got was Ariel from the little mermaid. ... Annnnd I'm just realizing that once again, in the end, she ended up turning into what he was. ... In Thumbelina (Don Bluth's) too. Damn.. now I'm all sad again.

2. (Re-posted from a rant on ONTDCreepy) All of this recent defamation is dumbing down monsters (not just them but the fear, the consequence, the moral and ethical questions, the mythos, the defenses against them) for an oversexed, idiotic society of pre-teen twits more interested in coupling than thought-provoking discussion, real substance, and terror.

3. Call me every synonym for tin-hatter that you want (I mean that, seriously, please; because I want so badly for someone to tell me to stop freaking out; please wake me up) but this whole new gentle luvver-monster fad is the new "prince charming" tale to tell women and girls "look, here is the perfect man. Strive for him and he will be yours". It's sexism that's ok. Seriously think about it for a second- these monsters have no weaknesses anymore. It's always a human female. The only bit of "monster" retained in them gives them just a bit of the physical upper hand on the female.

And now, don't blink or you'll miss it. Never before seen in nature: Harp is about to pay a compliment to Ron/Hermione.
At least with Ron and Hermione, they're both wizards, and when it comes to magic, she could kick his ass before he could so much as reach for his wand. ... Not that she would; they're very good friends and her wife Luna (or Lavender) agreed to be surrogate for his and Draco's baby.

I'm gritting my teeth, and I think it's only partially from the cold. Let us end on two positive notes.

Some Beautiful Minds on W.C, high on Badfic, fell asleep and together dreamed a dream of a beautiful sitcom sort of like The Brady Bunch if the dad was a former librarian at Miskatonic, the mom was an ex cultist, and instead of being from a previous marriage,her kids are from ritualistic cult breeding with starspawn.
This is their chatter

Positive Note B:
As I promised Wolfe- Proof that Twatlight didn't kill the Harry Potter series, but actually revived it for a short while. This was a beautiful night, November 2008. The Harry Potter fans of Livejournal put their differences aside and rose up together, united against a common enemy. Do you understand how epic that is? Livejournal, one of the most violent, cruel, bloody Western Fronts of the Harry Potter Civil Fandom Wars (aside from Fictionally and JournalFen). And on ONTD, the site where What/Who You Like Sucks. That's one of my favorite memories of the Harry Potter Fandom.

Remember the comparison of the fandoms to family homes? My icon is a polaroid taken at the state fair when the H.P family royally kicked the Twilight family's arses at tug of war. Then we pantsed them, painted their kids in the Hogwarts house colors, tagged their campsite, and set their car on fire. And we did it as a family. Harry Potter Fandom, we will always have Super Troll Sunday.

I'm tired; if I needa fix my tags, I'll do it later on; also I still need-a read your comments from last post. Very sorry; got some super unhappy news Tuesday is all.

Date: Friday, January 25th, 2013 10:58 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] theidolhands.livejournal.com
You make solid mutha-fukkin points, and when I get that enraged about a subject, I generally do my darndest to take Ghandi's words and become the change I wish to see in the world. Not to say you can't gripe. Heaven's no. Just that I understand. You should see what's been happening to my once delightfully cheesy and innocent worlds of super heroes. *mutter* *grumble*

I refuse to hate Twilight on the grounds that people who did not feel my pain over the ransacking and "sparkling" of my childhood passions FINALLY got a taste of what it was like.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 02:37 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
people who did not feel my pain over the ransacking and "sparkling" of my childhood passions FINALLY got a taste of what it was like.
Wat? Where. Show me. Is it Twihard tears? Three dozen bottles, please. Did they cry? I hope they cried.

Unless you mean Super Heroes. ... Oh no, do you mean the wave of Super Hero movies? Is it the content being destroyed? Are the fans super unbearably smutting it up? Did Social Justice Sally set up pod people stations? Fandom wars? Elitism? Wow, there are just so many ways to ruin a fandom; I legit don't know which one you mean.

Depending on what you mean, I can kinda share in 1% of your pain. I just saw that Hansel and Gretel is going to be A Thing now.

I just realized- knowing Hormonewood, there's a chance they might have changed it so that they're lovers instead of brother and sister.

Not sure if annoyed or Troll-LoL-LoLing. (Oh who'm I kidding; they obviously made them siblings; that way there can be 2x the sekshooal tenshin. Take me away, fanfiction.)

P.S Re: Hansel and Gretel- Buffy did it better; Grimm brothers did it best.
Edited Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 02:39 am (UTC)

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 03:01 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] theidolhands.livejournal.com
Yes. That.

Date: Friday, January 25th, 2013 11:38 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] nobleplatypus.livejournal.com
this whole new gentle luvver-monster fad is the new "prince charming" tale to tell women and girls "look, here is the perfect man. Strive for him and he will be yours".

What really burns my bacon is that the ostensibly romantic behavior these new prince charmings exhibit isn't so much saving the damsels in distress from unpleasant third parties, but just refraining from killing the damsels even though they totally could and really want to. Because HOLY SHIT is that ever problematic. Not that the old narratives weren't, of course, but romanticizing abusive behavior is so uncool.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 03:56 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
And, And, AND if it's uncool? Friggin say it! I'm sick of all these (awful, horrible, mean words) authors trying to act like their effed up stories are TWU WUV and oh, don't say anything ba-ad about them-m-m-m! Heaven forbid we like something that's fecked up!

(Ohhhshytt, you got me turned on to a whole 'nother aspect I only looked at but didn't see.)

What, is it really that difficult to house two slightly conflicting thoughts? "I like this pairing a lot" AND "Their relationship/dynamic/story/treatment of one-another is completely repulsive"? Can we not point to the faults in our darlings and say "it's awful and I know it"? You're a writer, right, Platty? You have darlings with a messed up dynamic?*

Just because something is ugly doesn't mean it's bad and worthy of hatred.
If you really care about and believe in, or just plain like something, you won't cover up or try to make excuses for its bad qualities. You'll acknowledge them and love them for it. Or despite it. Or learn to forgive them. Or say "this is a thing. Ok. Let's move on."

Seriously, what's so wrong about liking ugly stuff? You know, that's why we and the other ONTDCreepies get mad at these idiots. They say to monsters "I love you if you change". Then they birth a disgusting baby and say "No, no, he didn't bite you; he's just expressing himself! You're taking it out of context! Nobody wants to date that person and nobody likes those types of parents/pet owners.

Meanwhile, we're like "Monster, I love you and yo uglyness! Whatever, it's my taste!"[1] And we create little horrible hellions and say "Ah ah, you chop the head off your Marie Antoinette doll, not your friend's Barbie doll. And we only bite people at feeding time."
or "Yeah, she does that sometimes. Heh."
or "You don't like it? Well nobody invited you to come play in our yard anyway." We may not be liked by everyone, but at least we're not trying to peddle juiced B.S to impressionable idiots and pretend it's a health drink.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 04:17 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] nobleplatypus.livejournal.com
YES. It really, really drives me up the wall when writers refuse to acknowledge that some of their shit is problematic. It's one of the reasons Moffat frustrates me so much (especially because he is so prolific and high profile and it is like, DUDE, YOU COULD DO WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS), and his fandom apologists are no better.

But I can at least kind of understand why a writer would get defensive, because to them, you're actually saying, "Hey, you kind of fucked up, here. Maybe don't do that." But when their fans can't deal with criticism that isn't even aimed at them because they didn't write it, I go nova. If you're so attached to a show or movie or band that you literally can not handle it when someone has a less than kind word to say about it, you need to step the fork back. Look at your life. Look at your choices.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 02:12 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
I was like "Moffat? Is that the actor who plays Sherlock?" Then I looked it up and saw he was the writer. I don't know anything about the series. I do know he said that one thing about... Sherlock's not asexual because it wouldn't be interesting to watch. Being completely outside of the fandom, I know that made some people super mad. Me, I've been watching people misspeak all my life, literally- neither of my parents are native English speakers, my cousins practically refuse to learn English, and the class we were merged with was filled with fresh-outta-high-school English Clutzes. I'm super used to I don't think those words in that order mean what you think they mean" and "It sounds like you're saying X, are you saying X?" I even went back to look at an old JK Rowling interview with two unpleasant people and realized that I'd read it wrong, and that she was totally innocent. (The interviewers, on the other hand, were strictly right out of the septic tank). (No, really, I think that's where they emerged, fully formed)

Then again, if he's high profile, then he should say fuq da police; I write what I want" or just not comment on the subject at all. Our generation of fans will do better, though. We've been through the fandom and we won't make the same mistakes that our elders made.

But I can at least kind of understand why a writer would get defensive, because to them, you're actually saying, "Hey, you kind of fucked up, here. Maybe don't do that."
This is true.

Are we talking about writers who write screwed up relationship dynamics? If so, I challenge them to say "how exactly did I mess up? I wrote their story. I wrote what happened to these individuals as independent variables in their own universe, making their own choices based on their own experiences. If I wrote your life story down, do you think people would say I messed up in places?" So I guess my problem with Smeyer is that in her world, that crap actually is an ok relationship. That and the willful ignorance she has to employ to be totally blind to it.

They really should do what you said and look back at their choices. What is that critic saying? "I don't like this thing you don't like and here is why." Those people really do not strike me as fans. Maybe it's because you 'n I have been through a fandom or two, but it really is true- insecurity cannot handle criticism. It's 'cause those critical remarks are taking the biggest spotlight and pointing it at something they have doubts about themselves. But maybe they're just young and brainless. Maybe they'll grow up and learn how to say "yeah, that part was stupid". Or just "I didn't read it that way. I read it as this way." And then, that's the end of the discussion. You said how you read it. They're not going to change their minds, and if they don't then how--

and here's the big, 20/15 hindsight question that I am just furious with myself for not asking the Harry Potter Fandom Jackoffs back during the war...

-- How does their reading or enjoyment of that thing in any effing God Damned way take away from your enjoyment of the series?! What is it to you that some internet derp in some other place is deriving or not deriving joy from something you don't or do enjoy? Just tell me. Lay out specifically how this works. (Added frustration snarl out of spite: "OOoh, some person thirty miles away likes something I don't like! Wah, wah, wah" you spoiled infant; go stand in the corner until you can learn to act like a person worthy of being a member of society.)
(Oh, you don't know how I wish I could just go back and leave that loaded machine gun to my old fandom self. I would fire it on so many fandom bullies...)

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 03:44 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] nobleplatypus.livejournal.com
Regarding my beef with Moffat, it's less about screwy character dynamics. He HAS totally written that, but my reaction was less "this is bad writing" and more "this is too painfully similar to actual terrible relationships I've witnessed for me to ship this." Now, whether he knows that he's written something screwy is another matter, and part of my concern (and a good chunk of the fandom's concern) is that, like Smeyer, he actually thinks that what he's writing is an excellent romance and that the haters don't understaaaand.

Plus, there's the fact that he only really seems to have one female character in his head, so every female character he writes is just a subtle variation on a theme. And that the 'theme' contains some problematic, sexist bullcrap that he refuses to acknowledge. And that he's so interested in maintaining a certain status quo re: his characters that he doesn't actually allow them to grow, or to be realistically affected by the shit they go through. I could really go on about this all day.

A lot of fans are WAY too insecure, as you said. One of my younger cousins had a friend snap at her because she'd posted something gently critical of One Direction. "It might be funny to you guys, but it isn't funny to any Directioners who read this!" And I probably should have stayed out of it, but I was indignant enough on my cousin's behalf to be like, "Actually, you know what's REALLY funny? The notion that an artist should be exempt from criticism because their fandom can't handle it."

Mindless flaming isn't cool, but no one should feel compelled to censor their legitimate criticisms because it might hurt the fee-fees of someone too hypersensitive to even be on the internet in the first place.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 11:14 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
So weird how that last sentence wasn't supposed to tie in to the first part of the comment, and yet, it did.

I saw the word sexist and had an involuntary reaction* (thanks to Intarnet-Social-Slactivism crying wolf about that word) for two seconds until I remembered that I have no idea even who you're talking about. Then the last sentence tied in completely and I smiled because I remembered you made the comment on ONTDCreepy that time where we were all "DNW these SJA's on my ONTDCreepy". ... on that note, I think they got the hint for the most part. I haven't seen jack_rowen around ever since**. ...

And then I laughed because I imagined someone writing "TRIGGER WARNING:ONE DIRECTION CRITICISM". ... Now I'm troll-laughing and imagining someone posting "omg u need to tw for 1D crit ok my friend is gonna injur herself now u are such ASSHOLES!"

Even so, I do agree with your last sentence 100% with the mindless flaming. That's why in the Harry Potter Fandom, I sided with the H/Hr people- they had this little website, "Portkey", an independent website for their ship(s) and people felt free to go in there, make accounts, and flame them or take clips from their forums and post them on stupid journal sites. That's just wrong. It's one thing if it's a shared space, like a Harry Potter General Forum (the town commons), another thing to attack someone in a journal (kinda like a road or path), and just completely unacceptable to go into someone's private forum to bash their ship. They aren't bothering anyone there, and it takes deliberate effort to go into someone's "home". That's going out of the way, and I'm all for the public posting of e-mail addresses and ip numbers if someone does that. (Ok, maybe not the posting thing, but I'm speaking out of annoyance right now and I know it)

(*I'll tell you in the car at FFA)

**Which I'm super glad about; every single comment that kid ever made to me just screamed "I have no idea where I am".*Still kinda annoyed about how during the vampires post, j_r first-responded in the dhampir post about how "dhampirs were impossible" so that the comment was all that would be seen when the thread collapsed.* Ugh, so glad that kid is gone...

Date: Thursday, March 28th, 2013 03:34 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)
I think I love those horrible hellions. How very Pugsley and Wednesday!


Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 03:56 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
Putting my asterisk comment here so as to spare you the teal deer

I sure do. Rapunzel and Billie Joe's relationship is totally unbalanced and lopsided and literally their every mating will result in an unholy abomination with 50% chance of tentacles. You wanna talk star crossed lovers- they literally are, but they're like fuck da police, we don't curr, lol u mad bro? That is if they weren't self-centered, immature, short cited, wreckless, thoughtless, impulsive hormonal bottle rockets.

And me an' G love em anyway.

[1]Sapphira Vern don't give a damn; she wouldn't trade her squillions year old grumpy quote "Nosferatu undergoing chemotherapy" vamp-lover for an exact replica of him when he had hair on his head and proper melanin levels.
Edited Date: Friday, February 8th, 2013 10:32 pm (UTC)

Date: Friday, January 25th, 2013 11:39 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] madderbrad.livejournal.com
Never before seen in nature: Harp is about to pay a compliment to Ron/Hermione.


Not that she would; they're very good friends and her wife Luna (or Lavender) agreed to be surrogate for his and Draco's baby.

*faints again*

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 04:08 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
You was not supposed to see that, you know. But, but, but see the above statement.

Also, I have many, many more nice things to say about Harry/Hermione.

Also, assume that Hermione/Lavender takes place in a reality where with his last breath after killing Voldemort, Harry says to Hermione "If you truly love me, you will find another and learn to find a new happiness; only then can my soul rest in peace" (with a lot more hacking and gasping).

Also, I know, I know but it's not like I ship them or nothin'; don't worry, my Ron boat only docks in Draco Harbor. (Or Lucius, or Luna, or Lavender, or Rosmerta, or Narcissa, or Pansy, or Lucius and Narcissa together but not as just some one-night or sex-buddy thing, but as a true, loving, committed OT3 because that's nice).
And not that you ask, but Pansy, Padma Patil, Luna, Lavender Brown, Minerva, Harry, Neville-later-in-life, Gilderoy Lockheart but not as a sexual thing only as an assisted living thing when she's in her 20's; these are my Hermione ships.)

Also, look one comment below; you and Barrie seriously need to meet and talk, you would be bros.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 04:20 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] nobleplatypus.livejournal.com
Thread-hopping, but. BUT. Thank heaven for someone else who thinks Ron/Hermione is REDONK. >_> I avoid the HP fandom like my sanity depends on it (as it probably does), but I have never really bought R/H as a realistic ship and I really resented the epilogue for pretty much doing NOTHING but cramming those dumb canon ships down my throat. Like, yes, JKR, I get it. I don't buy it, but I GET IT OKAY. STAHP.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 02:42 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
Oh, R/Hr drove me into a horrific rage back in the fandom days. I could (and probably did) write a doctoral thesis on all the things wrong with that ship. Did you know there's even a term we learned in Psyche class for what they have? It's called "fatal attraction". The complete theory* is this: Two opposites are attracted by their differences alone. Eventually, what attracted them to one-another ("A's such a free spirit!" "B is so grounded!") is what drives them crazy ("FFS, would you light somewhere?" "You're such a stick in the mud"). With no common interests to hold them, they eventually fall apart.

Ron and Hermione don't have a single Goddamned common interest. Or, as someone worded it for the stubborn gits "if they had eight hours alone together, what would they do?" Have they ever had a conversation? They've literally never even apologized for their arguments. Ohhhh, and I'd hear it all the friggin time from the rabids. "Couples fiiii-iight, WAH!" Yeah, they do. And what's the best outcome of a fight? You learn something about each other, grow from it, and don't have the same fight again. Maybe even learn how to compromise. Fights don't just go away; they get resolved. No, "Me and Hermione have stopped fighting" is not a resolution. It's called "ceasefire"; look it up." R/Hr might be cute for some people to watch, but imagine being 24/7 around a couple that fights all the time.

But after what I said to you up there, I could potentially like the pairing in the strictly schadenfreude sense. Or like the self-destructive slapstick bad guys. I don't get it. Why is hurtful, hateful banter supposedly "cute"? Why do people say "Aww, they should get together". Ok, imagine what you just saw? Only ten times more personal and with the trappings of a relationship they're both too proud to call of. I bet those people bought Jan and Michael's relationship in The Dinner Party episode of the Office. "Ron and Hermione seem to be playing their own separate game. And it's called, "Let's see how uncomfortable we can make our guests." And they're both winning."

*I have to say this now, because when I tried to explain it in the past, a bunch of whiny fans would come in with "WAH BUT OPPOSITES CAN ATTRACT!" disregarding that the statement depends on one-another and that the second part is the killing blow.
Edited Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 02:44 pm (UTC)

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 03:55 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] nobleplatypus.livejournal.com

I sort of feel like JKR was trying to emulate Beatrice and Benedict from "Much Ado About Nothing" with the whole, "Look, they bicker! It's because they're in loooove!" thing. Except in "Much Ado," they're both adults and it's implied that they actually used to get along fairly well and then had a falling out. The bickering is like a coping mechanism, because they're both hurt and don't want to admit it.

Whereas in HP, there's never any kind of hint or inkling that Ron and Hermione are capable of anything but bickering. That is all they've ever done since they met. Sure, they care about each other, and if one gets hurt the other gets upset about it--that makes sense, because they're friends, and you'd have to be pretty callous to not care that your friend is in the hospital wing--but that's not enough to sustain a romantic relationship when they pretty much have nothing else in common.

Honestly, I could have done without ANY shipping among the main trio, but I have to say, when the locket Horcrux was all "JEEZ RON WHY WOULD HERMIONE EVER DATE YOU?" I was like, "VOLDY HAS A POINT GUYS."

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 11:45 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
I could have done without all the "this person married that one" stuff, too. Who knows why JK had to obsessively pair everyone up and go on and on about it in the interviews. Whatever her reason, the One Big Happy Weasley Family thing gained an extremely profile-able rabid following- again, all three words required to fit the definition. Without fail, every single one of them had one thing in common- the crippling, life-threatening fear of singularity. I learned first-hand that implying that someone was dateless that night or wishing eternal bachelor/ette status on someone was literally, I mean literally the equivalent of giving someone the finger to them. Seriously, one of them, Daksian, admitted it to me. He explained that he was journal-stalking me because I told someone from his camp that I didn't care what they thought because they were probably using the forum because their rudeness condemned them to a friendless, family-less life dying alone. Thing is, I didn't even mean it as an insult any more than I'd say "you're just saying that because we have the same birthday".

Unfortunately, that "single-ness is not a choice, it is a thing that you deal with until you can get attached to someone" mentality is another thing that drives the media machine, isn't it? (warning: eye-roll inducing statement ahead; viewer discretion advised) But I don't get it. You're never truly alone if you have books and music and comedy. And definitely not if you have RP. Seems like relationships just get in the way of all of those nice things. I really understand Ardal O'hanlon when he said that another way of expressing your love and admiration for another human being is "leaving them alone for a while".

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 07:52 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] theidolhands.livejournal.com
I'm not a hardcore fan, but my family was and I did see the films.

I agree with your feelings on this (and not because I disliked either character). I actually thought Harry and Hermione were better, not that I needed that to happen, but I'd fantasize about how powerful they would be together and elements would vaguely remind me of his parents.
Edited Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 07:52 pm (UTC)

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 11:57 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
I friggin love power couples like that. People who get along and laugh. Peanut butter and chocolate.

And personally, Ron is my favorite, and I really think he needs to be with someone who won't go "oh, here, just let me do it; you always mess things up". He needs a Harry/Hermione relationship, not a Ron/Babysitter one. To this day, the whole fandom treats ron like the big emotional goof along for the ride just for the sake of old times, and I hate that. Seriously hate it. Don't know if JK intended for this to happen, but she accidentally revealed a lot about Ron through throw-away scenes that you have to collect and put together. For example, how he's always piling up on food at Hogwarts. Everyone in the fandom laughs about it, I'm like "Yeah, well, he comes from a big family; he's probably hard wired to associate group eating with "get all you can, fast, or there won't be any left".

Date: Sunday, January 27th, 2013 12:00 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] theidolhands.livejournal.com
Speaking as a person who grew up poor, you nailed it.

And again, I agree 100% on your relationship assessment.

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 12:41 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] barsukthom.livejournal.com
"That is not dead, which can eternal lie; and with Strange Aeons, even Death may die..."

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 01:42 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] barsukthom.livejournal.com
I'm all worked up with nowhere to go
Walkin' with a fanfic over my shoulder

Waitin' for an invitation to arrive
Goin to a fangroup where no-one's still alive

I was struck by trolling
reading my lj
I was hit by something when i went online
It's an alarmist party
Who could ask for more
Everybody's whining, leave your morals at the door
Leave your morals and your judgment at the door

Re: PS:

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 02:00 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] barsukthom.livejournal.com

Re: PS:

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 04:16 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
showing things cannot be having why


(Also, you should really meet the guy with the intentionally blank icon up there, I mean it you guys would be bros. I have known Brad for a long time, you would be bros. Do it, or I'll set up an LJ post specifically to make you meet and he will not like that and neither will you.)

Re: PS:

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 08:03 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] barsukthom.livejournal.com
You are TEH DEBBIL an up to NO GOODE!

PS: Don't you see? Don't you SEE? R/Herm works EXACTLY because they have ONE thing in COMMON!
They both want to bang Harry. And they know the Wizarding world wouldn't allow it.
But before Graduation, Herm stocked up on piles of Harry's hair and nail clippings.
'Cause TWO can Polyjuice better than One.

Re: PS:

Date: Saturday, January 26th, 2013 11:58 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
There is literally fanfic of that. A lot of fanfic about that.

Re: PS:

Date: Sunday, January 27th, 2013 01:47 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] barsukthom.livejournal.com
Oh... well. If it can be thought of, there is ff about it.
Right, actually, my response got so long I decided to make a post rather than kill your page with a mazillion-part comment. :P

Link: http://sugar-for-sugar.livejournal.com/263203.html
An Entry-Reply? :) i don't think I've gotten one of those before. I'm going to go see it now; thank you!

Date: Friday, February 1st, 2013 01:16 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] lokifan
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)
I am so pleased someone else has noticed the whole supernatural male/human female aspect of the vamp etc phenomenon; it's obvious to me but I've literally never seen anyone else mention it.

Date: Thursday, March 28th, 2013 04:02 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (whowouldbyrondo)
And vampire women seem only to exist as evil deadly seductresses, out to kill or enslave human men. And sometimes women. Look at The Hunger. Look at Carmilla. There's a huge tradition of the lesbian vampire. It doesn't really get a romantic-relationship dynamic, not in the same way as male vampire/human female.

But the vampire mythos as based in English literature (as opposed to its Slavic antecedents, who were more like ghouls) is ALL ABOUT death-as-stand-in-for-sexuality corrupting and destroying innocent maidens. Back beyond Dracula to Dr. Polidori and The Vampyre. So really I guess we have to blame Lord Byron and his sex life.

And the modern tamed-down vampires who are lovers when they could be killers may be a way of saying "yes, sex is dangerous and scary, but if you can tame it within the confines of True Love, maybe it won't destroy you." Which is still retrograde bullshit, but a bit less harsh than the 19th-century terror.

Men aren't culturally permitted to be afraid of sex in the same way women are. Hence the only way female vampire/human male is allowed to play out is if she's thoroughly depraved. Goes all the way back to Dracula's seductive "brides". There's no real way to pull it back to a romance and make a female vampire bad-but-not-for-you. The hero would have to read as strongly submissive and do you know how DIFFICULT a sell that is in the romance market? Femdom romance is such a tiny, TINY niche, and a goodly chunk is about humiliating alpha males, at that. We'll see how my historical femdom story I submitted to a pegging-themed anthology goes over, as it has a hero who's service-submissive down to his soul, and finds the idea of being owned (quite literally, by some legal arguments, as he fell in with a Barbary pirate woman) satisfying in a way he'd never imagined. Actually, knowing the editors, I'm betting they'll buy it, but I also wonder about reviews.

For the eroticism of m/m vampire pairings (human or vampire lover, doesn't matter) go directly to Anne Rice, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

So, vampires going from monster to romantic MIGHT be a baby step of progress, but the male vampire lovers are still embodying some gross patriarchal tropes, and some new imaginings would be REALLY NICE.

Date: Thursday, March 28th, 2013 10:24 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
So, vampires going from monster to romantic MIGHT be a baby step of progress
If it is, it's a baby step forward and a pogo stick leap backwards, 'cause in the process, they're removing everything about them that makes them vampires (the weaknesses, and even the fangs in some cases). That's just super unfair. Humans need a way to fight back and protect themselves, or else the whole thing falls apart. By Smeyer's logic, there's no reason evil vampires haven't taken over the world. If nothing can really stop them, and if there's no downside, then you'd think there would be a lot more of them. There's no reason to conceal their identity.

I really shouldn't think about Smeyer because at a certain point, I stop wanting to have reasonable talks with her and start just vowing that if I meet her, I'm going to punch her in the uterus.

Date: Thursday, March 28th, 2013 10:32 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)
Ah, you're thinking of the horror-genre implications while I was thinking of the romance-genre implications -- yours is more "what if these monsters were real" and mine is "what societal fears are these monsters externalizing", am I reading you correctly?

Have you read [livejournal.com profile] stoney321's analysis of how the sparklepires and the entire plot of Twilight reflect a thoroughly Mormon worldview? SMeyer might not have done it consciously or deliberately, but it permeates the work nonetheless. Stoney was raised Mormon. She knows whereof she speaks.

Date: Friday, March 29th, 2013 02:03 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
Aye, you're reading me correctly. Like I said in my LJ... no, like I said in ONTDCreepy, I'm like "STAY OUTTA MY THINGS >C". I imagine I feel like the Lord of the Rings fans of 1980 who loved the books and were mocked might have felt when Orlando "Legolas" Bloom got squeed all over. ... Yes, in fact, I think that's exactly how I feel.

I mean, shoot, I have a huge deal of reverence and respect for all people older than I am in and out of fandom. When that Dark Shadows movie came out, I was all excited, but I first checked with the folks on my fList who were over 40 to ask their opinions, 'cause I know I'm getting a "screwed up" version of what they loved. You know, so I can love it privately, but have due respect for it. ... Am I rambling? I feel like I might be.

And yes, I did read Stoney's Sparkledurhammen! <3 It was one of my favorite reviews! Pure White and Delightsome indeed. But boy do Mormons get cheesed when you point those parts out to them.

Date: Friday, March 29th, 2013 02:44 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Hot Hat)
I'm over 40 but not quite old enough to have watched Dark Shadows on TV. But, I've been a Tolkien fan since age 7, drawn in by the Rankin-Bass movie but hooked instantly when my parents said "you know there's a BOOK, right?" and, hell, I thought Orlando Bloom as Legolas was pretty cute. I like femmy men... and I was happy that people were starting to love the thing I loved, even if they hadn't been drawn in deeply yet.

For all that I loved nearly every Stephen King work from Carrie through Misery (they got patchy after that), I'm not really deeply committed to the horror genre. There are some tropes I find satisfying, but I prefer them admixed with romance, or at least with Bradbury's lyricism. So I'm not going to have the EW YOU GOT YOUR ROMANCE ALL OVER MY HORROR MAKE IT GO AWAY. The first vampire I loved was probably Count von Count, and the first one who frightened me was the Dracula in Tom Lehrer's "-LY" song on The Electric Company (no, seriously, look it up if it's not familiar, and imagine an anxious three-year-old) and the first one I desired but couldn't have was Count Chocula (my mother did not believe in sugar cereals). When I grew older, there were the frightening Nosferatu-types in 'Salem's Lot, but, as you might guess from the photo, I was grabbed hard by Lestat.

So romance in my vampires doesn't fret me. The romance offered by the sparklepires doesn't tempt me: you see them as over-powerful because their traditional weaknesses have been filed off, but I can't help but see them as watered-down, because they're acting more like romance heroes than frightening monsters. Edward claims he wants to devour Bella, but he restrains himself, and he insists on refraining from sex, and he keeps refusing to change her, and all this is supposed to be a sign of his great love for her, but, dammit, it's infantilizing. I want my vampires to crave my blood, and TAKE it (I will offer it, even) and exercise just enough restraint to keep me alive to do it again. I want them to be thoroughly interested in sex, and even if it's not their primary pleasure any more, I want them to be interested in driving me wild. I want my vampires, if they fall in love with me, to beg me to let them change me, so we can be together forever. Vampires are supposed to be PASSIONATE. Edward is anything but (destroyed pillow on wedding night notwithstanding). So I find him deeply disappointing.

And I like the vampire weaknesses because they're a way of marking that even the ultimate sexy bad boy is vulnerable too, and a human lover will have to use care and caution around him not to endanger him, just as he has to use care and caution not to endanger his human partner. That? Is REALLY satisfyingly romantic for me.

I can deal with unrepentant, unromantic all-monster vampires. But I do feel like they should be Nosferatu-types, or at least reveal physical scariness/ugliness when they're in predator mode, if they can pass sometimes. The pretty ones (and Bela Lugosi is pretty, in my eyes, take it from there) -- the handsome princes of the night -- they should be romantic.

I mean, DUDE. The Frank Langella poster with the fucking BRIDAL CARRY. Fucking bulletproof kink. Right there.

Date: Friday, March 29th, 2013 01:04 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
Ahh, you'd like Ivan Fidatov, then. That's who my RP partner writes.

exercise just enough restraint to keep me alive to do it again. That's Ivan! "Blood pets" he calls them.

thoroughly interested in sex, and even if it's not their primary pleasure any more, That's old hedonist Ivan. Works out, too, 'cause he can be easily distracted by pleasing his senses. 'Caurse, that's also how he ended up stuck with his Idiot Fledgeling...

beg me to let them change me, so we can be together forever. That... would be Ivan, except he has had two lovers-turned already, and it ended so poorly both times, and he's been alive for so long (11th or 12th century) that he's got an understanding of just how long forever is. :I Actually, if you have any excerpts from your book about the Turning Discussion, I... ahh, maybe I shouldn't. I just need some kinda idea. 'Cause if he did ask her, right now she'd probably point out just how dangerous it could be.

((Confiding in you, plz feel free to skippit!)) I mean, she's terribly, terribly persuasive and cagey, manipulative even. She's spun things in crazy ways, it'd take a lotta words to explain, and done it in that especially sneaky way where the person thinks they came up with the idea themselves. So the first century or three might be fine, but time can really strip the humanity from a person. That kinda power with a maxed out charisma stat minus the morality compass... it might get messy.

Date: Friday, March 29th, 2013 01:48 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)
Hee, White Wolf called blood pets "blood dolls". I see you're fine with the Lestat-inspired White Wolf model I love so much!

Vampire Byron is like that, too, although he's careful enough to keep it nearer the Red Cross guidelines -- actually he and Laura (yes, I named her Laura Aubrey, I am a little shit that way) had a cute extension of the safe sex discussion where they worked out a balance of less blood/more often and only brief tastes during the recovery period. (Feeding, if he chooses his moment right? Can induce extended orgasm. LIke, for the duration of it. So the balance is important!)

Byron is absolutely burnt out on 'forever', though. Back when he was human, Caroline fucking Lamb was supposed to be forever, or at least they said it a lot to each other during their affair, and their breakup was EPIC. He DOES NOT say 'forever'.

He's also not willing to discuss killing Laura if she gets old and decrepit. Shuts that RIGHT down.

I'm afraid it isn't a book -- it's a short story that hasn't hit the target 15K yet. Still a rough draft. But, if you'd like to see it, pm me your email address and I'll share the Google doc with you. I love feedback!

Date: Saturday, March 30th, 2013 02:35 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com
yes, I named her Laura Aubrey
I missed the reference, so it's new to me.

He's also not willing to discuss killing Laura if she gets old and decrepit.
That's also something I'm worried about. One of these days, she's not gonna be so young anymore, and unlike the Blood Pets they started out with in the first game (Alice and Chester) she's likely not going to get killed.

But, if you'd like to see it, pm me your email address and I'll share the Google doc with you. I love feedback!
And I want to say yes, but I'm afraid of 1) unwitting Osmosis (or is it diffusion?) and Plasmoptysis, 2) inadequate feedback (I am a matador of it), 3) annoying you when I fall off the face of the earth in May (that's when mortuary school resumes). Now if you had some discussion feedback questions you needed answered, like "I wrote this scene, what does this evoke?" and "in this argument, what are they saying and whose side are you taking, and what do you feel are the motives behind her argument? What? No, she wasn't trying to get his pity, she was trying to make him laugh, where did you get that?" and "What zodiac sign is this character and why?" well, I can do that. I do best with guidelines.

Any fule kno sex=babies
What's fule kno sex?

Date: Saturday, March 30th, 2013 02:51 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (Default)
Miss Aubrey is the protagonist's sister in The Vampyre, the one Lord Ruthven (in other words, Byron) is trying to seduce and kill. She has no first name. Laura is the vampire Carmilla's target, in LeFanu's story. I'm hoping to make very geeky and thorough vampire fans giggle.

The story doesn't exactly take the kind of questions you're proposing. Uncharacteristically for me, it's first person, Laura's POV, with a decidedly (deliberately) chick-lit flavor to it. And I think I can trust my beta to tell me if I make one tricky bit work -- in the third sex scene, which is an actual roleplay one instead of just accommodating vampire physiology, Laura is going to have to break fourth wall very near the start of it, because their roleplay is premised on Byron acting like a movie vampire with a strong basis in Bram Stoker's writing, and so his semi-scripted dialogue is going to sound CHEESY AS HELL, and Laura's "voiceover" will be explaining WHY they're using such cheesy dialogue, with a bit of lit-crit underpinning it. But I know I risk wrecking the momentum of the sex scene. I just feel like, on balance, I'd rather risk the digression and then return to SEXYTIMES than risk losing readers when they think "OMG WHO EVEN TALKS LIKE THAT" about the roleplay words. This is why I haven't written that part yet.

I won't be offended if some of my ideas seep into your RP, but if you don't want to risk muddling it, I'll understand.

Also, May is not an issue. I'm thinking it'll be done around next week.

Date: Friday, March 29th, 2013 02:24 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] rikibeth.livejournal.com
ext_3319: Goth girl outfit (whowouldbyrondo)
I should probably warn you I'm a bit of a Byron stan. It's not that I don't see his flaws (and he was, unquestionably, flawed) but I have a very poor opinion of Caroline Lamb's mental stability, and I think Annabella Millbanke was a cold bitch (even if my adored Ada Lovelace's talents probably came from her and not from her father), and as for Claire Clairmont, her behavior was 100% stupid, and I think she took advantage of Byron as much or more as he took advantage of her... it's just that, in the 19th century, the inescapable consequences were a lot worse for her. BUT SHE MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT. Any fule kno sex=babies, and yet she THREW herself at him. Practically dragged him into bed. Idiot.

And he built a cynical shell around a hopelessly idealistic core, and you didn't have to dig deep to see the hurt, and he had a wicked sense of snarky humor, and so... despite his flaws and episodes of being an asshole, I'm a bit of a stan.
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